New York Vocal Coaching Podcast Ep. 29: Marc Geller

Matt
Hello everyone and welcome back to the New York Vocal Coaching podcast. I'm Matt.

Andy
And I'm Andy. Marc Geller is a film, television, and stage actor who you may have recently seen in his recurring role of the Director on CW's new show Katy Keene, and will also be seen in the upcoming TV series Severance directed by Ben Stiller. He's also been featured on The Onion and The Eric Andre show.

Matt
On the stage he's performed across the country and off-Broadway in hundreds of roles. And he just tackled his first musical theater role in Cabaret. So great to have you Marc.

Marc Geller
Nice to be here.

Matt
So you've done all of this experience on stage and all this experience on camera. How would you describe the difference between them? How does the acting change?

Marc Geller
Oh, completely. I've only been doing film and television for a year or so. I pretty much had a stage career up to this point. So I kind of had to learn all over again. It's just so much smaller. In film and television they really want you to do nothing. You really have to trust that you're good enough and that nothing's okay. And that's really the big difference. I mean, you're clearly not trying to project. You're not trying to fill a theater. You're not... You know.

Matt
Sure.

Marc Geller
It's all in your eyes.

Matt
Right, because you've played some massive personalities with being the Ghost of Christmas Past in a lot of Christmas Carols and-

Marc Geller
Yeah, Christmas Carol's in a 2,500-seat theater. So I'm used to full on, big theaters.

Matt
Yeah, that's humongous.

Marc Geller
And the camera's five feet from your face. So it's very different.

Andy
What was your first TV or commercial or movie role that you did? And what was your experience with it in terms of piggybacking off of what Matt is saying? What was the experience? Did it take you a second to adjust? Or was it kind of a natural fit for you? In terms of, oh yeah, I have to remember this is not stage acting for, like you said, 2000, 3000 people.

Marc Geller
The first thing I ever did was a long time ago was about 18. When I first came to New York and I was in a Woody Allen film called Stardust Memories. I only had about two lines and I didn't adjust at all. But it was a kind of big over the top film and I was in so little of it, it didn't really matter. After that, I really didn't do anything else major in film or television until this year when I did Katy Keene. Or well, I guess when I did The Onion, that's when I really learned something about I think film and television technique. I was going in to audition for it. And I had auditioned for the show once before, for The Onion, and wasn't cast. I was called back, but I wasn't cast.

New Speaker
And a friend of mine who had been on an episode, when I was going in for this audition to play a psychic medium, Kenneth Quinn psychic medium, which just lends itself to me being big and over the top, said do absolutely nothing. And so I tried to do that and I went in and did the audition. I did what I thought was absolutely nothing. And they were like, "that was great, can you do less?" And I was like, "I can try." And so I did it again and I did less and they cast me, or what I thought was less anyway, which was virtually nothing.

Andy
What was that experience when you were doing it, versus when you... And I'm going to have a point in singing here in a second about this, when you were doing it versus when you saw it? That situation in your brain, just like when we sing, as we're singing we don't know what we really sound like, but then we hear ourselves and it's, "Oh my gosh, that's not what I thought I sounded like" or "that's not what I thought I was acting like" what was that experience?

Marc Geller
Well, prior to doing The Onion, I had done little things like small, independent films and student films and things like that. And I would see them and think I was dreadful in them. I would see them and I'd be huge and over the top, and I would just be like, "Oh my God, this is awful." The Onion was the first thing I ever saw for film that I liked myself on. And I wasn't doing nothing. I mean, it wasn't over the top, but it was totally full and there was stuff going on and it was interesting. And so what I thought was absolutely nothing was more than big enough for film. So that's kind of my light bulb moment with film and television. And from then on, I was like, okay, I think I know what to do now. And every so often I still slip, but yeah, it taught me a lot.

Andy
Does that... My final question on this is, I always think about this. If people are naturally very expressive, as theater people tend to be, or they talk a lot with their hands or their eyes or their mouth, and that doesn't really work for TV/film. Is that you as a person? Or do you naturally just... Are you a little more chill? Because I think I would have a hard time. I have done just a few little things, on camera things, nothing official, but I took a commercial class. I remember I was just like, "Oh my gosh, what is going on with my face right now?" And I realized, that's just how I talk because I'm very expressive. But I don't know, did you have that problem or did you have to say tone yourself down? Or was it like no, just be natural?

Marc Geller
No, to some extent I had to tone my face down too. Like I said, working in big theaters especially, people have to see you. And in real life, my face is pretty expressive. I have a relatively unusual face and it's pretty expressive. So it has to be so... The camera's so close to your face. It really just has to be behind your eyes. That's what I've learned anyway. That's what works for me.

Matt
And the prep work between film and theater must be so different as well right? I mean, a lot of times when you're on set, you need to memorize and you just go.

Marc Geller
There is very little prep work for film and television. Yeah, as opposed to theater where you audition and then you go for a callback and then months go by. Film and television happens in days generally. I mean, at least the stuff I've done, it happens very quickly over a period of a week or so. And you film small segments at a time. If you have a big part on something, you can be memorizing that day's stuff that day before you do it. There's very little rehearsal, at least on the projects I've worked on, there's not a lot of rehearsal. You might go through it once and then shoot it. So...

Matt
And what resources do you use to find the casting calls that you go out and audition for?

Marc Geller
Well, my agent has been sending me on film and television stuff. Theater, I get a lot of myself. I use same things everyone else uses for theater. I look on Actor Access and I look on Playbill and I look on the Equity website, but for film and television that's a little tougher without an agent. Which is why I really never did film and television prior to about a year ago because I didn't have a film and television agent. So the doors are a little harder to get into with film and TV if there isn't someone submitting you, I find.

Matt
And you recently performed in Cabaret in your first singing role in a musical.

Marc Geller
I did.

Matt
So how come you made that leap at this point after you've been performing for a while and getting these television gigs?

Marc Geller
Well, I was pretty much told my entire life since I was a kid that I had a horrible voice and couldn't sing. I was always told I had a really nice speaking voice and people always thought I would be a good singer. And then when they found out I couldn't sing, they were like, "really? Because you sound like you'd be able to sing." And I'm like, "well, I can't on key." And so I never really pursued musicals. However it started to occur to me, especially recently, that especially when you get to the summer months, 75% of the auditions are musicals. I could be auditioning for so much more stuff if I could sing and at my age now I didn't need to be a leading man kind of singer, I could be a character singer, which is presumably what I am.

So if I could just sing enough to sing the character songs, I thought maybe I could open that market up and have so many more possibilities open to me. So a theater that I had worked at, Summer Theater of New Canaan, where I worked with you in their production of West side Story, where I didn't have to sing, was going to be doing Pippin. And I thought, well there's a male role in that, the King, that is right for me age wise, that doesn't have to sing a lot. It's pretty much a patter song. Maybe I could do that. And so I then contacted you because I knew you from West Side Story and I knew you were teaching and said, "could I learn to sing well enough to audition for this?" And I came in and sang for you. And you said, yes.

And so we worked on that a little and getting something ready for that audition. I contacted them and they said I could come in and audition for the part. And then the day before the audition, I booked a play that I had auditioned for. So I didn't go to the audition because I wasn't available and I didn't want to go waste their time. And I was like "well, now I did this and I'm ready to audition for this musical. And it's not happening." And then another theater I had worked at Sierra Rep, I had done Baskerville for a year before, announced they were doing Cabaret. And I was like, "well I could play Herr Schultz in Cabaret," the Jack Gilford role that's two songs, but I could learn to do that right? And so I asked you, and you said, "sure, they're pretty much within your range, let's work on it." And so we worked on it and I made it... Oh, it's a horn, everyone's a critic. We worked on it and I sent a tape in and they cast me.

Matt
Right. Well, I remember our first conversation because we would talk a lot during West Side Story. And then when you reached out about being able to sing, what I found is, when an actor who has done so much comes to you and say, "I cannot sing," I never believe it. I always feel like there's some voice in there. And usually when they start to sing, they are surprised at what they can do. There's always some sort of ability there. And I gave you a first lesson, I believe it was over Skype?

Marc Geller
It was the first one.

Matt
And you were hitting these notes and showing off your range. And I said, "there's a voice in there." So it's been fun to see your growth into confidence and just accepting your voice a little bit more when from the get go, you said, "nah, there's no way I can do that."

Marc Geller
Well, the thing I'm learning now, much like when we were talking about being less for film and being competent, that's enough, is that with singing, for me anyway, it's really all about confidence. The more I believe I can do it, the better I do it. I don't know if I'm necessarily doing it any better, but I'm selling it more. And I know how to tell a story, that's the thing. I can tell a story. I can sing a story. It's just a matter of singing it on the right notes. And the thing that surprised me was I always assumed if I did sing, I'd be a really low bass kind of like being Caiaphas in Jesus Christ Superstar or something like that. And you had told me that I'm more of a baritone. The character in Cabaret, he goes up to a G, which is about as high as I could possibly go.

Matt
Well, I was impressed with your range right away. I mean, you had the Caiaphas notes and you could sing up to high C's for any other role that you want. I mean, your range was just immense. I was impressed right from the get go.

Marc Geller
But it's a matter of actually hitting the right notes at the right time. That's the hard part. But when I actually started rehearsing Cabaret, when I was there rehearsing it, one of the first things the director said to me after I sang was "it's fine, but you're over singing it." I was just trying way too hard, because I was not a singer. I was just really trying to sing. And I was hitting the notes, but it was big. And so I had to bring that down. But in the show, it all worked out well. I was very happy with the way it turned out and no one left, no one asked for their money back. None of the critics said "can't sing." So I was happy.

Matt
Now, what was the process for you with getting used to singing along with an orchestra or I suppose you had a track for this musical?

Marc Geller
We did, however there are two songs, and one is a solo - "Married" - I was real happy with. That went well and I thought I did a good job of that. The other song "Pineapple" - is a duet where I actually had to sing with someone else. And the person I had to sing with was a very good singer. So that was more challenging for me because I had to make sure I was matching her notes and I wasn't there by myself. But it was an interesting learning process and she was very generous, and really helped me along with that. And I was happy with the way it turned out.

Andy
Great. Now you and Matt have a previous relationship and we're just meeting today for the first time. So I'm going to just ask you a few questions that maybe Matt knows already, but have you had voice lessons before?

Marc Geller
Nope.

Andy
So when Matt first brought up having you on, I was really excited and I said, it'd be really interesting to hear what it's like to have had so much success as an artist, as an actor. And then all of a sudden put yourself in a vulnerable position of not being sure if you can sing or not with someone who has so many theater credits who has been paid to perform professionally, who has been reviewed to all of a sudden say, "I'm going to sing and put myself in a vulnerable spot." What was that process like? Because that's scary for anybody, but especially for someone who has been an artist for years.

Marc Geller
It's kind of my M.O.. I guess in a way it's kind of what I do, so as not to get bored. I try to do things that scare me. I hadn't done film and television, so I wanted to do film and television. I hadn't sung so I wanted to sing. And when you do any of those things for the first time, I know when I got up there first night of Cabaret and sang, it was really exhilarating, the adrenaline rush was great. Or being on a set for a film for the first time, it's a great feeling. And you'd be surprised what you can do that you don't think you can do.

Matt
Absolutely.

Andy
What would you say to someone who might be in a position like yours, where they haven't really sung, or they were told "I can't sing," or they've told themselves "I can't sing," but like you said, "you know what I want to do it, it sounds interesting. It sounds like a cool challenge. I want to up my game." What do you tell people?

Marc Geller
I would say do it. I would say take a class because I was told for years that I couldn't sing, I was the last person you would think would be cast in a musical. I had zero confidence singing and I did it, and they cast me. So, I mean, if I can do it, you can do it. If they cast me, they can cast you. There's nothing you can't do.

Andy
Yeah. I love that.

Marc Geller
I mean, if you want to do it, you can do it. The degree to your success level of doing it might not be... No one's going to cast me in the next Sondheim musical singing. I'm not the next Pavarotti or anything. But I feel like I can get by now. I can do character roles and things. I've seen people in things, big things now that I think don't sing as well as I do. And I don't sing that well, but I'm just like, well if they can do it and it's at a much higher level, there's no reason why I shouldn't be doing it too.

Andy
And I think I probably know the answer to this, but why not ask. Do you have a favorite medium for acting? TV/film, stage, straight plays or musicals? Do you have one that you like better, best?

Marc Geller
I actually don't, they're all so different.

Andy
This is what I thought you'd say.

Marc Geller
I mean, I've been on stage for so many years that I feel very much at home there. I have a lot of confidence there. I love the immediate response from an audience. Being able to hear them respond, I love that. In terms of film and television, it's a whole different thing. And I love that too. I didn't know that I would, but I do. I really like it a lot. I want to do more of it. It's so different. It's like being a doctor and being a carpenter, they're very different aside from the fact that you're performing. Basically, it seems like a whole different skill set, at least from where I'm sitting, it seems like a whole different skill set. And then musicals on stage are another totally different thing.

I was shocked actually, when I got there and started doing it, how short the book scenes were. I was like, "Ooh, that's all we say before we start singing?" I can memorize this now before we do it, I don't even have to go home. So that really surprised me. Not that I hadn't seen a million musicals in my life, I just had never been in one where I really thought about it. I mean, when I was in West Side Story I was in a book scene. And clearly I listened to the other scenes every night, but it never occurred to me how little was being said before they sang something. It was fun. I liked it.

Matt
What can you pull from singing and musicals, acting on stage and acting for film and television that mutually help one another? Do you feel like there's a good amount of crossover there? Do you feel like there's a large benefit now that you have conquered, have gotten confident with all these different mediums?

Marc Geller
I think that's the key word. Like we said before, confidence. I think the factor that goes through all of those is confidence. You need to be confident. You need to be confident at an audition. Nobody wants to hire somebody who's not confident. It's that balance walking in a room of confidence without being cocky kind of thing. You have to be someone that they know they want to hire and they know is going to do the job. It has to be a certain confidence level there.

And I find that in all of those things, in film and television and onstage and musicals. I guess the place I'd be least confident at this point is going in to sing for someone. But I've done it since Cabaret and I've had fun doing it. I don't know if it was always great, but I had a good time and I learned something from it and I sang in front of another person again. So it made me that much more comfortable with it. It made me that much more confident with it. There's something scary about something you've never done. The idea of you're going to go out on stage in front of all these people and sing is a scary idea until you've done it. Now I'm like, "okay, I know what that is. I'm not afraid of that."

Matt
And you're still alive.

Marc Geller
Yeah, I can go in a room with one person and sing now, I've done it in front of a whole theater.

Andy
What was the experience of your first musical theater audition, where you had to sing? Where you said I'm going in and I'm singing for people for the first time? What was that like in comparison to, you've done hundreds of auditions before, auditions, shows or TV things that you have not gotten, because that's the way of the world of performing and lots of things that you have gotten. What was that like? Were you confident in yourself? Or we were like "well let's just see what happens, because I'm here."

Marc Geller
Well, the very first one was the one for Cabaret and it was on tape. So I didn't have to go in because it was across the country.

Matt
And we recorded it in the very room-

Marc Geller
We recorded in this very room that we're in right now. So I had Matt here in the room with me. So it gave me-

Andy
In a setting that you're kind of used to.

Marc Geller
Yes, and I can still remember, to this day... It was less than a year ago, I'm saying "to this day." I can still remember it was in this very room and it was not during a pandemic, so there were a lot of people here taking class. And I remember we sang the song and recorded it and we sang it again and recorded it. And the room that we're in right now is not completely soundproof. And when I then walked out, we're right next to the lobby, the lobby was full of people of course that day, waiting for their things. And I was just like "Oh no, they just all heard me sing that they're probably all just hanging their heads. They're probably like asking for their money back, not to take classes or something." And several people looked at me and said, that was really good. And that gave me confidence.

I was like "Oh, okay. I don't have to hang my head and crawl out of here." So, that was the first one that was on tape. When I got back from doing Cabaret, the next one I went to, it was some EPA I think, at Equity that I just went to for someone's season. And I would normally, if they were doing plays and musicals, just do the monologue and not do the song. And I think it was a relatively big casting director. And just before I went in, I had the stuff in my bag, my two pieces of sheet music that I have in my bag. And I was like "Oh, why not? What do I have to lose? They're doing things that could be right for."

And so I did the monologue and I think I sheepishly said, "well, if you want to hear me sing, I have music. It's not really what I do." And the guy was really nice and he's like, "yes, we want to hear you sing." And so I did one of the pieces we'd been working on and the accompanist just was great and it was really fun to do. And when I was done, the guy said "that was really good". Whether it was or not, I don't know, but I felt like it was, I think I hit all the notes and I was clearly having a good time.

Andy
I think... And we've talked about this a lot and certainly Arbender, one of our teachers, he talks about a lot and you're mentioning it too that, what is so important, yes for musical theater, you have to be able to hit the right pitches. You have to be able to sing in tune. You have to be able to sing on the right rhythms and things like that. But if you aren't acting, no one cares. That's what people in concert... Or if you go to a concert, you want to hear vocals there. You're not going there to see their acting.

New Speaker
When you go to a musical, I tell people this all the time and people say "it's true." People are a hundred times more forgiving of someone whose vocals aren't mind-blowing than they are for someone who is absolutely boring or not connected, or anything. People go to see if someone is connected or if they can move them. And they don't necessarily do that with their vocals. They do that with their acting. We've all been to musicals where someone's vocals are great, but the acting is terrible. And you're like, "Ugh, it was fine". But then you go see someone who is mind-blowingly amazing at acting and emotional and they're connected. You don't even think about their vocals because you're so in tune with... Oh my gosh I remember so many performances of people's acting, not necessarily their singing.

Marc Geller
Well, luckily for me, the one musical I've done when I did Cabaret, the two songs that the character has are storytelling songs. No one expected me to be delivering mind blowing vocals. I think I did hit all the notes and to the best of my knowledge I did. And they're acting songs, they're beautiful, storytelling songs. And that was fun. I enjoyed that. They became my favorite part of the show. I actually... I didn't know if it would be, but by the time the show had been running, that's what I looked forward to - singing the songs.

Matt
Right. It's interesting that you bring up recording in this room and all of that. And I feel like now that everything is online and we're submitting for television musicals, I had a student recently that was cast in a musical without ever auditioning live. Just on a video alone they got cast. And I feel like when we watch ourselves and listen back, we always get nitpicky. And we say "Oh, no, that isn't the best that it can be." Or "Oh, I didn't like how that sounded," or "Ooh, I wasn't crazy about that." And I feel like we've gotten so perfectionist because of that, in kind of a negative way where when we were recording Marc, you would listen back and say "Oh, I wasn't crazy about that." And I said "that's great for exactly what we're going for. You're telling the story, you're getting notes. You're using that vibrato, different vocal skills. You're showing off a lot."

And there's still always something that you can find that is not a hundred percent. And I think that's true from everybody, from us three sitting in the room, to Beyoncé, to Kristin Chenoweth, to Jeremy Jordan, anything like that. And in some ways we can celebrate those minor differences that we have and in a live performance, that's just what it's going to be. The ability to overcome and continue to give that story and be vulnerable in that moment.

Marc Geller
Right. And when you and I made the tape for the audition and we listened back to it, I actually surprised myself. I thought it was pretty good. I would never have sent it if I thought it was terrible. I didn't want to embarrass myself. I actually listened to it. And I was like "well that was way better than I thought it was going to be. I think that's doable." And then I think it got better from there. Then doing it every night, I feel it got better and better. And the more confident I got, the less I had to push because I was getting more confident with it. And I was just relaxing into it. And like I said, I started to enjoy it.

Matt
Right. And I think your circumstance is one that many people face, where you're told for a long time that you cannot sing. And in some ways that's internalized. And because of that, you never listen to yourself because you think, oh, I don't want to deal with my own voice. I don't want to accept that. I'm not where other people think I should be. And I remember having this conversation during one of our first lessons, I said "record the lessons and just listen to yourself and write down what you appreciate in your own voice, write down what you like. And you're going to be surprised with what you find." And it seems like that's the journey that you took with me as well as on Cabaret. That all of a sudden you started to say "huh, that was kind of fun. That sounded pretty good. I'm going to keep on going with this."

Marc Geller
And the strange thing was, prior to this, I would sing jokingly, like acapella for someone. And I actually sound pretty good acapella, it's when you added the music, then I wasn't necessarily always on pitch. That's where I had to learn from you to work on. But people would be like "well, you just sang, and it was fine." I'm like, "yeah, but if you put the music with it too now, there's going to be a problem." But I actually talked myself out of a job in front of someone because I thought to myself "you can't sing." I won't say what it was, but it was in New York, it was an off-Broadway show in New York. And it wasn't a musical. And I went in and auditioned and they actually really liked me. And the director wanted me to sit down and talk.

And she said to me "do you sing at all?" And I was like "no". And she was like "well, I don't mean like a singer, just do you sing a little?" And I was like "no, I really don't." And she was like "I just mean like in the shower, you know, like sing to yourself?" And I'm like "no, I really don't." And I was going through this space of being really honest. And don't say you can do anything you can't. And she clearly just wanted me to say yes, she goes "but like happy birthday at a party?" And I'm like "no, I really can't." And she's like "okay, thanks." And apparently, someone I know saw the show in question and said "they didn't need a singer. They just needed someone who could sing like a regular person." And so I actually talked myself out of a job. So, you just need to have the confidence to... You can say "I'm not a great singer." You can say "it's not the thing I do best. But yeah, I can sing."

Matt
Well, we're just about out of time, but I wanted to end with a fun question for you. What was one of your favorite moments on stage or set and off stage or off set? From any of the projects you've worked on.

Marc Geller
Favorite moments onstage? Well, it's a loaded question because I've been doing Christmas Carol for, this will be my eighth year, and I fly in the show. So I mean, how can that not be-

Matt
That's so cool.

Marc Geller
I'm in a 2,500-seat theater flying 40 feet up in the air on a wire. So, I mean that's pretty awesome.

Matt
Some people might say that sounds horrifying.

Marc Geller
It is scary, and it's again, a lot of it's confidence and a lot of it's a trust exercise. There are two people who control, me one left to right, and one up and down. And pretty much it's in their hands. I can make it look like I'm doing the stuff, but I'm not and I can't control it. If they want to fly me into a wall, I fly into a wall. So it is scary. I mean, I don't really have a fear of heights or anything. And I kind of like to do things that are scary. I'm kind of like a big roller coaster person. So I like that kind of thing. So, that's certainly a highlight onstage, I really enjoy doing that. I'm not exactly sure what you mean in terms of off stage?

Matt
Off stage when you're putting on a production, you're connecting with others or maybe it was a-

Marc Geller
Oh okay. I thought you meant life in general. That could be a lot of things.

Matt
That's a fun question too.

Marc Geller
Be here all day. Offstage, I guess whether it's a play, or film or TV, it's always the same thing. It's getting to know new people. I really like meeting all the people. I really like the first day of rehearsal for a play and sitting around the big table and getting to know everybody. Especially if it's a big cast show. Same thing goes for when I did Katy Keene for the first time, everybody was so nice around the set and just meeting all the other people. And everyone's very welcoming. I've had nothing but good experiences with that, with people being very welcoming on stage and in film and television that I've done so far, people have been really, really nice.

Matt
That's fantastic to hear.

Marc Geller
I like meeting people. I mean, there are clearly people I don't like that I've met too, but they are few and far between. And everybody, especially in this new stuff with film and television has been very welcoming and really, really nice. So I guess that would be it.

Matt
Wonderful.

Andy
Awesome Marc. Thank you so much. This has been a real pleasure. And for our first time meeting, it's been great to get to know you a little bit. And I know Matt has been talking about for a while and he was correct in everything he said, so this has been a real joy.

Marc Geller
Well, the other bizarre connection I have to this place, as I was telling Matt is Justin Stoney, who... This is his place, I guess right? He started this place. I was in a show with, years ago at the Berkshire Theater festival and until I came here to take the class with Matt, didn't make the connection that this was his studio.

Matt
Was it we have a television in the lobby that plays his videos. I guess was that-

Marc Geller
I think that's where I saw it.

Matt
Is that right?

Marc Geller
It was like, "hi, I'm Justin Stoney." And I'm like, "Oh, I was in a show with you a long time ago." So one more little connection.

Andy
We're all connected, right?

Matt
Yeah, it's a small world.

Marc Geller
It's a very small world.

Matt
Cool. Well, thank you so much Marc, this was so much fun.

Matt
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